Posted on Friday, 12th March 2010 by Patrick Dorwin
Someone within the Milwaukee Police Department tipped me off to this posting on an internal MPD website.
During sub w/gun call at Washington High School, responding squads were unable to communicate with other units onscene or dispatch. Squads onscene either were unable to transmit, or what they were able to transmit was so garbled it was useless. During this assignment a subject with a gun was indeed found inside the school. This was a a complete failure of this system during a critical incident. This not only put the lives and safety of responding officers at risk, but an entire school full of staff and students. Responding officers had to commandeer school safety guards radios to maintain any level of communication.
What if this would have been a case of a Columbine type situation, our police officers wouldn’t even be able to talk to each other. OpenSky is going to get someone killed!
Posted in Home, Open Sky Radios | Comments (36)
36 Responses to “Another MPD OpenSky failure… Scary!”
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March 12th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
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March 12th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
That is utterly ridiculous. Its absurdity is amazing. What the hell are people thinking? Is it going to take the city being sued by the spouse of an officer who was killed in the line of duty to do something about this?
I just don’t see how why OpenSky is still being used!! It’s obvious that it’s a threat to the safety of the officers and the general public.
Yup - government at its finest :/
March 12th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
One thing nobody in the media has mentioned is, MPD could of saved taxpayers millions by simply switching over to the Milwaukee County Trunked Radio System. It was already online and has county wide coverage and even works in parts of Ozaukee, Waukesha & Racine Counties. But for some reason years ago Chief Jones turned down the offer from Sheriff Clake.
The county system has a channel that is monitored by every police department in the county,every Sheriff Deputies & Suburban cops portable & squad radio has this channel.
Racine County Sheriff, Waukesha County Sheriff, Ozaukee County Sheriff & State Patrol dispatchers can monitor and transmit on that channel too. Remember how quick Tosa got help from other agencies when their officer was shot?
Check out all the Public Safety users on the county system. Have you ever heard any of of them complain about problems?
http://groups.google.com/group/mkescanontwitter/browse_thread/thread/abf700cbf56315bd
March 12th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
From govtech.com , story about NYS decision to end Open Sky.
Comments:
By Rob on Dec 24, 2009
I live in Oakland County,MI. Our country decided to go with Open Sky in 2002, even though most every county in the state already uses the MPSCS P25 radio system. Anyway, Open Sky was supposed to fully operational in 2004 with all county PD/FD/EMS on the system. It’s almost 2010 and only 7-8 agencies have made the switch. The system still doesn’t work. Officers don’t like it, coverage is a major issue. Here’s some comments and issues I have been told by officers who use the Open Sky system:
-” You never know if your transmission is going through unless someone answers (no confidence in using the system)
-” If you’re in a foot pursuit, the radios don’t work”. (wind noise distorts digital signal)
- “We are on our 3rd prep and 4th or 5th update and we still have the same problems.
- Garbled, R2D2-like audio issues
- Preps will just stop working , you won’t know until someone tells you dispatch is calling
- “We are on our 3 rd mobile and 3rd prep already, same problems”
- ” This is the worst radio system ever forced upon public safety”
- “Our complaints fall on deaf ears”
-” There is no coverage in county jail, and most buildings”.
- “Someone is going to get hurt or worse”
- ” Many fire dept chiefs forbid their firefighters to use the system on fireground because background noise makes the voice unreadable.
- Many FD/PD’s have chosen not to go to the Open Sky radio system after seeing all the problems.
- All of the dispatch consoles they installed already will all have to be replaced by 2012 due to rebanding.
- “If you turn your prep down too low it will automatically go to mute and you won’t receive any calls”.
- The radios receive the calls at different times. If you’re standing in a room with other people with radios you can’t understand the call because they are not receiving at the same time.
- “If you go out of the city forget about getting a signal”
-” “Our complaints are ignored, they just tell us to move a little bit this or that way if you can’t get a signal on your prep”
- One FD used it for a week and then went back to their old VHF frequencies due to poor audio issues.
-” When we tell them (County radio board) of all the problems we are having they tell us that’s not possible”
- If you talk too fast or don’t hold the mic close to your mouth then your message likely won’t be understandable.
It’s just been a real mess here. The county is already many millions overbudget and now they have to replace all dispatch consoles by 2012 and now add 12-15 more towers to try to fix dead spot issues. They don’t want to listen to any complaints or problems. They are hell-bent on trying to get this system to work by any means. Surrounding counties went to the state P25 system years ago and are up and running 100%. It was funny because they would announce they were going to the state system, implement it and be fully operational and Oakland County would still be working the endless bugs out of Open Sky.
By Michael Smith on Mar 16, 2009
The M/A-COM OpenSky system isn’t “interoperable” - it’s a completely proprietary system. Why anyone would choose a proprietary system today is beyond me. Yes, they had problems with their portable devices, but that’s not all - the underlying problem is due to flaws in the fundamental system design. NY was wise to dump it and cut their losses.
Sound familiar?
After the budget hearings when Chief Flynn complained about the radio system, I politely e mailed Michael Murphy, the dear leader of the finance & personnel committee. I requested that maybe they could consider talking to the County about their radio system.
His Royal Highness didn’t even respond to tell me I was FOS. That was the first time I ever e mailed an alderman and they didn’t even respond.
I realize that Jones probably thought he was buying the Fleetwood of radio systems and that Hegerty probably thought that with the name Open Sky, it just had to be so perfectly natural and oh, so politically correct.
Now Chief, it’s up to you, if you’re not going to lead from the front, then at least stand behind your men- and the people.
March 12th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
I think one of the main reasons Jones wanted this system was so he could spy on his officers.
The system was suppose have a feature,which would let dispatchers and who knows who access any squad cam live to see what is going on during a pursuit or felony stop.
I bet Jones would of had access to that at home.
March 13th, 2010 at 12:12 am
It’s nice that TMJ 4 did a story tonight, but it’s the same old crap. Believe what ever Flynn or somebody at City Hall tells them. http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/87539437.html
March 13th, 2010 at 10:04 am
It would be nice if their news story would at least be accurate. The mandate is NOT a move to digital radio.
Maybe the union is finally being prodded into some action, time will tell.
It sounds like they are going to issue every officer with another radio to lug around because the real radio is a joke, a deadly joke.
March 13th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
Here is a question for the media to look into.
What makes Flynn think buying new radios will solve the problems?
Has anyone in Milwaukee even tested the radios Flynn is buying?
I am talking about Cops on the street testing the radios,not some person from the radio shop playing around with one for a week.
Check out Maple Bluff Fire Dept website. Small FD knows more then the big city police & fire chiefs http://www.mapleblufffire.com/videos/Narrowband-radio-test
March 13th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
I pulled pieces together from BB, from main posts to reader comments to links supplied by readers (good job ya’all) and put together a little love note that I just emailed to Steve Wexler, head of Journal Broadcasting, regarding that pitiful TMJ-4 story that ran last night (w/ copies to Belling, Jay Webber, Vikki McKenna, and Sykes just for good measure):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mr. Wexler,
Last night TMJ-4 ran as story on the Milwaukee Police Department’s new (actually, seven years old) problem plagued $17.5 million OpenSky digital radio system.
There were at least two glaring inaccuracies in that report that go to the heart of the seriousness of situation and that I believe require immediate correction in a followup story.
1. Heather Shannon reported that, “Officers say the OpenSky radios generally work well outdoors.”.
I don’t know which officers Shannon has talked to, but her assertion is demonstrably untrue, based on comments made here, here, and here by on-the-ground users of the system.
Further, her incomplete report on the Washington High School incident failed to mention that the OpenSky system was so bad that officers “…had to commandeer school safety guards radios to maintain any level of communication.”, a statement made on an internal department posting
When you read comments like, “… channel 2 (district 4) completely failed for about 30-45 minutes.”, and “the dead spots are terrible while on foot ” it is an utter fallacy to conclude the system “generally works”.
2. In her video report, Shannon asserts that there is a federal mandate to move from analog to digital radio.
This is simply not true. Thirty seconds spent on a Google search would tell this to anyone who actually wanted to do some research to confirm mouthpiece assertions.
Indeed, MP Chief Ed Flynn, who has often stated his main concern is safety of his officers, is either woefully ignorant of the actual mandate that concerns his department or openly continues to lie about it, as seen in his memo dated 2/10/10, in which he states, “First, we must remind ourselves that this transition is not optional. Congress has mandated that all public safety agencies migrate from analog to digital trunked radio systems by January 1,2013.”
There was never a mandate to switch to a digital system. Nowhere in the mandate, available for inspection at the US Dept.of Justice, is it stated that public safety agencies are required to apply digital technology. Further info available from the Association of Public-Safety Communications Officials, which includes a short QandA section featuring the following:
Q – Will we have to convert to digital?
A– No. However, many agencies are using this opportunity to upgrade to digital technology. Most digital radios are dual mode capable and can operate in wide band analog as well as narrowband analog and digital. Digital is also more immune from adjacent channel interference along with features unavailable in analog.
To be fair, Flynn had this dumped in his lap by previous admins, but his continual “to big to fail” mentality does deadly disservice to his troops.
The simple fact is that in 2002 Milwaukee used a boat load of “free” federal cash to buy into the most expensive untested system available, and that after seven years and $17.5 million it hasn’t been able to be made to work anything close to properly.
If your reporters are going to work a story, they should at least research the facts of the story and dig deeper than simply regurgitating whatever MPD and MPA mouthpieces spew at them.
In this case, a cop’s life may be saved by doing so.
Regards,
[full name, address, phone]
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The links didn't show up when I Cut&Pasted the email, but they point to various threads "here, here, and here" on BB, Flynn's memo, as well as to the DOJ and APCO sites.
In hindsight, I realize I should have sweet talked a little, some thing like "I appreciated TMJ for doing some reporting on this…"
Oh well. Maybe next time.
March 13th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
Nice job MjM
March 13th, 2010 at 5:24 pm
Many of us would like to speak out about this system we work with daily. But to do so would be suicide. Many of us remember Gustavson and Cornejo and what happened to those two fine officers after they spoke up. Years in the dog house and constant harrasment by internal affairs. Who wants to go through that?
March 13th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
Wait until the fire department switches over. Media is at just about every fire or major crash in the city, and could get some interesting stuff on video, like garbled audio or firefighters shouting radio doesn’t work.
March 14th, 2010 at 11:34 am
@Rocketman; You and others here already have spoken out, right here on this blog. But - and you can call me presumptuous - I believe that you and the others know in your hearts and minds that a paragraph here or there isn’t going to cut the mustard. I can sense just from ya’all’s posts that you know speaking out would be the right thing.
I can also guess what you are currently thinking: “This asshole doesn’t get it”.
Well, maybe I don’t, maybe I do. Maybe being an outsider muddies my perceptions, maybe it makes things clearer. But I can certainly grasp that a possibility of a few years in the doghouse is better than the probability of an eternity under sod for a completely idiotic, preventable reason.
As I wrote in some other post there are ways to speak out anonymously. It can be done. Get your fellow badges together on the side and document the incidents. “Deep Throat” it if you have to. Belling would be my choice. Hell, send it all to me and I’ll play the part of Woodward&Bernstein.
That, or I hear there’s a wave of blue flu moving up from the Southwest.
~cough~
March 14th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
Rocketman, you obviously don’t want to be part of the solution.
Your comment gives the impression that you are more concerned about self-preservation than you are about the welfare of the person who sits next to you at roll call.
Did Rod Gustafson (not Gustavson) and Jav Cornejo get the shaft? Sure, but they never compromised their sense of right and wrong. Their situation wasn’t even close to being similar to that of officers using a radio system that apparently doesn’t work, then refusing to say something about it so the problem gets fixed.
Just whine anonymously instead of trying to do anything to solve the problem. That’s proactive police work. I think working with a broken radio system and keeping your mouth shut about it is suicide (unless you don’t ever get out of your squad).
I have a suggestion: every time you have a situation in which your radio fails, document it. File your “my radio doesn’t work” report. Write your matter of to your captain. I’m sure your sergeants know about it. Contact your union every time it fails. Heck, you can even contact your elected officials.
Or you can do nothing but complain in a bar, in the hole, or some anonymous forum, hoping that the problem fixes itself.
March 15th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
Glenn wrote; It’s still frustrating, after all these years, watching and hearing about people who have been placed in positions of authority and who have a duty to represent their people fail to do so.
Amen brother.
The problems discussed here, are being discussed here, because despite the dutiful reporting of the problems to the higher ups in the department, there is no improvement in system performance. Detailed Radio Trouble Reports continue to be generated. The dispatchers and Communications Sergeants are well aware of the poor system performance. Being a Don Quixote whistle blower may be noble in the movies but is savagely punished by those without a sense of honor.
Public pressure is needed to bring this story to the attention of the elected officials who allocate tax money to buy these high dollar systems. I can’t understand why the MPA and MPSO don’t join forces on this issue.
I’m not worried I’m going end up under any sod as described by another poster. I’ve found that it’s more likely a suspect will be able to escape during a crime that is in progress or just occurred, with the poor radio performance, than an officer be injured or killed. The wise officers are still doing proactive work, but changing their tactics so not rely on the radio. Just like officers from the 1950’s and earlier. It seems pretty sad to have to do that in a data driven era, but that’s where we’re at right now.
March 15th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
andykilvinsky, I ain’t nowhere near giving up on this
Would be great if a couple of you MPD officers shared a twitter account, and tweet every problem you hear about. I think Flynn & the Aldermen would love all the phone calls & emails from taxpayers & everyone worried about the safety of the officers.
March 15th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
Detailed Radio Trouble Reports continue to be generated.
Strange. Even as you write it you admit that all that Fine and Proper Report Writin’ has had zero effect on the situation. Very strange, indeed.
(Also strange: complaints of faux nobility from one who’s nom de plume represents precisely that. But I digress…)
Understand that public pressure cannot be brought if the public is unaware of the depth of the problem. Which - oh, I’ll take a flier - is precisely the way the brass wants it.
And which is precisely my point.
As fine and informative spot as BB is it’s probably not on the reading list of any where near a majority of John Q. (um, sorry Patrick/Bruce/Roland.. no dis intended). A once-every-six-months 60 second inaccurate and incomplete TV news report that nobody watches anyway isn’t going to open any eyes. And file drawer full of internal reports in some file cabinet in some file room does absolutely nothing to enlighten public perception (although it does make a nice repository of evidence).
You want awareness? It isn’t going to happen by osmosis. You have to force it.
I congratulate your bravery and your confidence that you will remain top ‘o the green. I sincerely hope the scum you encounter agree and cooperate. If they do, peachy.
However, your specific worry is interesting and remains… and opens up a whole ‘nother can of worms, doesn’t it? Ya think that has crossed John Q’s mind?
Quixote aside, how long do you suppose where your at is where you’ll be? Exactly how long does “for now” last?
I hope it’s not another seven years.
March 16th, 2010 at 1:03 am
The problems have been well known for over a year now, So it’s not like cops are not complaining to their bosses.
Chief Flynn, the aldermen and the fire chief know all about the problems http://tinypic.com/r/16k1di1/5 and for some dumb a** reason they decided to take away the old radios that worked great, and force the officers to use the new OpenSky radios while the vendor works on the problems they promised would be fixed last year. Now they decided to give the vendor even more money, and replace the new radios with other new radios, thinking that will solve problems and make officers safer.
March 16th, 2010 at 6:00 am
The paper ran a story that, once again, totally misses the point! They mention the problem plagued OpenSky radio and even quote someone here, he can break that news himself if he wants
, but the paper totally misses the point that OpenSky does not work properly for the police. They talk about how people with scanners can no longer listen and gloss over the officer safety issues!
I don’t have time right now, but we need to post comments to them to try to get them on the right track, OpenSky is a failure on so many levels.
Digital police radios black out public access
March 16th, 2010 at 9:03 am
A whine, but at least FINALLY the part about the mandate is set straight.
There’s a link in that story by Ryan Haggerty to another by him dated 11/26/09. That story has a side bar that all you coppers probably already know but should reread a couple of hundred times to make it get past your thick skulls:
“Two officers who were called to a house where another officer was shot while serving a search warrant Sept. 30 said they repeatedly could not hear the address from their dispatcher in the minutes after the shooting. The officers said they eventually followed another officer to the scene.”
THIS is EXACTLY the type of info that needs to be hammered on and repeated and repeated and repeated.
Obviously Haggerty either has access to those fancy Trouble Reports or someone with enough guts and, yes, nobility, willing to whisper in his ear, or both.
Use him.
March 16th, 2010 at 10:58 am
Jeff Wagner is doing a bit on the media complaining about not having access to MPD radio broadcasts as a result of this system.
I called to say that the discussion should actually be about how officers don’t have access because the radios fail and was told by the producer that they want to talk about the public access part.
I guess they don’t care that this radio system is failing for police officers.
March 16th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
I am the scanner guy that Ryan talked to, and I am disappointed with his story.
It sounded like the story was going to be a good one, he was talking to cops,and a bunch of others about the problems, but also wanted to hear from a scanner person.
He didn’t want me to mention on blogs or twitter that he was working on a story, which I think was a big mistake.
Yes I have 4 scanners running all the time, but he left out the part about how 3 are for online fire feeds I have at http://wifirefeeds.com
He also left out the part about a armed robbery a few blocks away from me that I heard on the scanner, and how the suspect description sounded like a guy on my block, and how I went and did a face to face with a cop down the block who was on foot.Cops went to apartment I told them about, but had no luck, but they still thanked me for the info.(MPD Tac squad had that guy and other people from his apt unit a few months earlier outside the apartment in cuffs sitting on the grass, I also shared that with cops)
I also told Ryan to call other departments like Greenfield PD and see how not hearing MPD anymore affects them. Greenfield monitored MPD because they share borders. There were a lot of times when I heard Greenfield saying Milwaukee just had a xxx at xx, and that would make a few Greenfield squads hang out in the area, or even assisting with canine.
Menomonee Falls PD also monitors MPD.
Several months ago MPD had a pursuit that entered the falls and turned into a foot pursuit of 2 suspects that were suppose to be armed, this was when MPD still had the patch up, even though open sky radio audio was bad, the Falls dispatcher heard the numbers of a house where MPD officer had one at gun point.
It’s sad how the media is making this into a “we can’t hear MPD anymore” story, instead of doing some real reporting and dig deep & ask a lot of question about all the problems with the radios & radio system, and how much this system cost the city so far, and how much more they plan on spending.
MPD not joining the Sheriff & Suburban Departments on the county radio system should of been a big story by all the Milwaukee media.
Just think, Milwaukee spent 17 million so far on a system that has nothing but problems, when all they had to do years ago was buy new some radios and use the county radio system.
March 16th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
Wagner reminds me of Floyd the Barber.
March 17th, 2010 at 1:00 am
Are you suggesting that a reporter at JournalSentinal screwed up a story?
Shocking.
March 17th, 2010 at 8:40 am
Awesome site, Jo… er, mkescan.
March 17th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
I felt a little bad after I hit reply for # 22
Reporter couldn’t have everything I said in his story, it wasn’t about me. Plus they sometimes have to chop up stories to fit in between ads.
I worked at the Journal, and ad space is now more important then news, and they wonder why circulation keeps dropping.
Who knows..maybe reporter is still working on more, or maybe another story is waiting until there is room for it.
He did a good job on his story about the problems back in November http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/74212577.html
March 17th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Floyd the Barber doesn’t stutter and stammer.
Well he didn’t before his massive stroke.
March 17th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
Wonder why MPD still has the UHF repeaters running, if they are so sure OpenSky is ok, and problems are getting fixed.
That’s a big waste of Electricity, and isn’t free.
Guess the city just like throwing money away.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:23 am
Check out this tweet from a Motorola guy.
“know that feds did not mandate digital but strongly recommend project 25 standard, opensky does not comply. Feds mandated narrow ch”
http://twitter.com/skutsch
Seems like everybody but the Milwaukee Police & Fire Chiefs, know that the mandate was not for digital or trunked systems.
I think it’s time for Flynn or somebody at City Hall to say somebody really messed up with this years ago, and there was a whole lot of lying going on back then.
Got to wonder if anybody at city hall or MPD made some money by choosing this type of system.
March 18th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
If any of you cops work during the day and still have old radio in the squad, put it on F-15 sounds like they gave that channel to Bureau of Municipal Equipment.
I guess the tow truck guys must need dependable radios.
Also remember all city departments were suppose to move to OpenSky. (not to old PD channels)
March 18th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Check out this story about a new Dane County Radio System.
http://tinyurl.com/y97yum5
Hey Anne Schwartz, show this part to Chief Flynn “The county’s radio system is in need of an upgrade to meet a Jan. 1, 2013, federal deadline to narrow its bandwidth”
March 20th, 2010 at 5:23 am
JSonline has an update in todays edition:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/88708162.html
March 20th, 2010 at 5:28 am
mkescan gets a h/t for his input. Great effort with, hopefully, some positive results.
March 20th, 2010 at 7:22 am
mkescan wrote: “Got to wonder if anybody at city hall or MPD made some money by choosing this type of system.”
I think an A.G or D.A investigation should commence into the investments made by past Police Chiefs and City officials who had any input or design in the implementation of these (and other) contracts to include their spouses. I can think of one couple who would be prime targets.
March 20th, 2010 at 8:43 am
[...] fail to transmit, leaving the officers to deal with serious situations alone, such as the story we broke here on BadgerBlogger, later picked up by the dead-tree media, in which police officers were chasing someone with a gun [...]
April 20th, 2010 at 10:27 pm
[...] We have already seen that these radios do not work at critical moments, like when officers were chasing a subject with a gun inside Washington High School and could not communicate with each other or call out for [...]