Posted on Saturday, 28th February 2009 by Bruce
An opinion piece acknowledging the growing rift in Madison between public and private sector employees, published in The Cap Times? The Cap Times? And, more surprisingly, it doesn’t blame George W. Bush for said rift? (I could theorize that, next thing you know, I’ll stumble onto an editorial in the same publication, criticizing Noble Wray and the Madison Police Department, but that would just be, you know… silly talk.)
“Here in Dane County, where a quarter of the workforce draws paychecks from the government, one can sense the growing rift between the public and private sector as the economy worsens. And we’re doing better than just about everywhere else in Wisconsin.”
Even more provocative than the opinion piece itself is the page after page of internet debate it inspires, during the workday, from persons claiming to be state workers; opining about how underpaid they are, how they’re “making sacrifices” in order to continue working for state government, and how necessary and critical their jobs are to the function of the system.
Attention private-sector employees: These people are thumbing their noses at you, with Jim Doyle and his back-pocket state employees union hacks leading the charge on their behalf.
h/t: Sykes
Posted in Home | Comments (18) |
18 Responses to “You stay classy, State of Wisconsin employees!”
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February 28th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Bruce, I’m sorry to read that you think state employees are “union hacks” thumbing their noses at everyone else. I know plenty of hardworking corrections officers and probation & parole agents who work really hard at their jobs - jobs I might add that aren’t exactly terribly desirable - and it’s a shame you’re so quick to demonize those folks simply because they’re state employees.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Zach, no one is questioning that some State workers are hard workers. The issue at hand is the complete disconnect Government employees have with the realities of the marketplace and how lavish the total compensation package is for government employees and the complete unwillingness of said govt. employees to have to share in the pains of the current economic times.
Government workers want to compare themselves to the private sector, but its not a comparison at all.
All we hear from Government workers is how horribly underpaid they are, yet they get to retire, full healthcare benefits for life at the average age of 55, while guys like my father (small businessman who employs 25 people) is still working at age 63.
Think about that, a man who has run a small business for 40 years, generated millions in tax revenues to pay people like you to have a job, empoloys 25 people who also pay taxes and you get to retire at 55 and he is still working at 63.
Government workers love to use the word FAIR…OK Zach, is it fair that my dad has to still work at age 63 when you get to retire at 55?
Is that fair???
Do you know what is the #1 challenge in the real world marketplace Zach? COMPETITION.
It is competition that seperates the haves from the have nots in the real world.
That ingredient is not present in the public employment sector and is why excellence is rarely if ever acheived by public employees.
Its for that reason alone that public employees should be paid less than private sector workers.
Public employees do not make, sell or market goods and services that need to be sold out on the free market against competition that wishes to put you out of business.
Place the added demand of competition, throw in no guarantee’s that you can retire at 55, throw in the possibility that the organization you work for could go out of business leaving you high and dry, and then you can talk about being on par with your Private sector Americans.
You Public Sector Employees do not know how good (or easy) you really have it.
If you did, you would be smart enough to know you should keep your mouths shut and try to fly under the radar as you coast along in your “punch the clock for 35 hours a week for 30 years” gig and then you get to retire off to FLA or AZ with your big fat State of WI pensions.
The State of WI has 70,000 goverment employees. I can flat out guarantee you that if ran to the same standards of a FOR PROFIT business, it could be run with half that amount and would turn a profit.
Thats the difference between public and private.
February 28th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
When your side stops demonizing the produers in this country — investors, entrepreneurs, small businesses, large corporations, and private-equity and venture-capital funds — maybe we’ll lay off on those who only take.
I’m sure parole officers and social workers work hard. So do washing machines.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Brian, you hit the 10 ring with that shot. As a retired City of Milwaukee Police Captain, I think I more than qualify to say that. I loved my job and what I did during my time with the Police Department and bristled whenever I heard some copper say the words, “This job sucks”. Usually these words were uttered by someone who qualified as either a coat hanger (just holding up the uniform) and/or a thief (stealing his paycheck). It was not uncommon for me to get in their face too, but the best response I ever heard was from a Sergeant I worked with when I was on the Tac Squad. He would tell the copper to explain to his father all of the pay and benefits he received as a Police Officer and then tell his father that the job sucked. Many public employees seem to forget that lesson and need reminding once in awhile.
Unions have their place, but too often they are led by power hungry people who are really only interested in their own well being. Maybe that’s why so many of them relate to Democrat politicians.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Thanks for the response Glenn, I am well aware of your fine work with MPD and your impeccable credentials. My thoughts are geared more towards teachers and the $50K to $150K beaureacrats of State Government. I would say that overall, we get our moneys worth from local police and fireman.
Its the beaureaucratic THUGS of state government and teh UW System that view Wisconsin State Government/Taxpayers as nothing more than a trough to feed at until they are 55 and ready to retire.
Shame on them all…and whats worse, many of them have deluded themselves into thinking they are hard working and worth every penney.
I think not!!!!
February 28th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
No offense taken Brian. I understand completely and Zach probably will too when he’s older.
February 28th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Zach is a liberal saying something negative about Government is like saying something bad about his Mommy. Not all, but most of the liberals who come here are being paid by the taxpayer. They are not serving. Cops serve and are generally not liberal. Cops are more like military. They have rules, they have standards and they have to count on one another. They understand the real world. Zach doesn’t live in the real world.
February 28th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Actually gus, Zach is insulting the service employees of Wisconsin by including them with the bureaucratic underlings that occupy the state Offices in WI.
February 28th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
Yes Martin, that is true. Zach is a neophyte lib-child. He defends by virtue of reflex-knee-jerk. He defends that which..Generally speaking…is not defensible. Martin, you are correct, but Zach’s knee jerk didn’t know the difference.
March 1st, 2009 at 10:33 am
It is my opinion that the only way for a union to survive is to demonize the employer. Who would join a unoin if the message was “The boss is a good guy trying to balance the needs of his customers and doing the right thing for his employees and your pay/working conditions are pretty good, all things considered”? The union boss’s own job depends on making the employees (I refuse to call them workers, as if the owner/ boss doesn’t work) believe that they are getting screwed at every turn. Add to that the inherent protections of civil service, and you wind up with a whole bunch of whiners with no concept of reality.
March 1st, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Glenn, what don’t I understand? I love my job, and I’m proud of the work I do as a public sector employee. I’ve never considered myself underpaid or undercompensated, nor do I believe I’ve ever said that. I just don’t understand why some feel the need to demonize public employees. Yes, our pay and benefits are good, but we’re not all lazy and underworked, nor are we all just “collecting a check” until we can retire. I do the work I do because I want to make the community a better place for all of us, and not simply because of the pay and benefits.
And Brian, you’re absolutely right; public employees don’t “make, sell or market goods and services that need to be sold out on the free market;” instead they do work like supervising inmates in state prisons, monitoring convicts on community supervision, prosecuting criminals for the crimes they commit, and countless other jobs. These jobs are no less important simply because they don’t produce goods.
March 1st, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Zach, it’s good that you love your job and work hard. As in every job, there are those who do and those who are lazy bastards just looking for whatever they can get without making any effort to earn it - as if it was owed them. I’m sure you’ve seen them as I have and wished that some boss would take the initiative, do his/her job, hold them accountable and get them out of your way so that you can do your job without having them as obstacles in your way. It’s a damn shame that lazy obstructionists (and I know many who were on union boards and/or union reps and management haters) get paid the same amount of money as people who bust their asses to do the right thing, but that is one of the very bad things about a union. Unions don’t exist to run the company. They exist to ensure that their members are treated within the guidelines of the negotiated contract and to bargain contracts on their behalf. I’ve heard many hard workers, who are also members of unions, express their dismay when their union defends some slug member who everybody, including the union representative, knows should be disciplined and/or fired.
I’ve read the many comments about public sector employees on BB over the years that I’ve been here and never considered them directed at me even when they appeared to be general comments. Just like when you once asked me how it was possible to identify “the usual suspects”, and I not only answered you clearly but also gave you a homework assignment to find out for yourself, people tend to judge us all based on the conduct of a few or their own biased perceptions of what they think we are. Funny how when they get to know us those perceptions change some or at least are less general.
In those cases where I felt compelled to address certain misconceptions (primarily as relate to the police), I have used my knowledge and experience to do so. There was a time in my life when I would have taken great offense to some of the things written here but, as I stated in an earlier comment, I learned to distinguish between personal attacks and the general frustration some exhibit (which I understand very well).
Something that you and others need to think about before reacting is that we are all products of the choices we have made in life. For example, I wanted to be a cop. When I applied, I didn’t look at the pay and benefits. I wanted to be a cop and applied and was fortunate enough to get the job. The thought of becoming independently wealthy never crossed my mind. If that had been important to me, I would have worked for an advanced degree and become an engineer, a lawyer, a doctor or some other professional person and would have worked to be the best I could be at that job. Others chose to start their own companies and roll the dice. Some of them have done quite well for themselves and become the target of class envy idiots who had the same opportunities but either weren’t smart enough or simply didn’t take advantage of them. I don’t begrudge these entrepreneurs one bit and I don’t envy them either. They worked very hard and made personal sacrifices to earn their nice houses and cars and other things they have and good for them. It is as it should be. They serve as a model for my kids and your kids to work hard and strive for perfection in all they do. I applaud these people rather than loathe or envy them as so many socialist leftys do. The next time you guys do your Obama4Me cheers, you’d better think about your kids and what kind of future they’re going to have under socialism if this clown and the Queen Bitch Pelosi get their way. And remember, there ain’t gonna be any Affirmative Action for your kids or mine or our grandchildren.
I would suggest to you and others from your side of the aisle to make your arguments a little less elitist, personal and sometimes whiny and, especially for those in the public sector who may not ever get wealthy but whose jobs are very secure and benefits far better than many of those in the private sector, to understand that a degree does not necessarily equate to being smart. I have known alot of people who lack a college degree who I hold in very high esteem as being extremely smart people. I’ve learned alot from such people and I attribute much of my success as a law enforcement officer to such people. The vast majority of those (of all ethnic backgrounds) who I and other good cops fought for and continue to fight for have been lower socio-economic, high school educated people who worked hard all their lives and just want to enjoy what’s left of those lives. They are not unlike my parents and those from the neighborhood I grew up in, and I’ve learned alot from all of them.
Brian, gus, and all the others here understand that many public sector jobs are important and necessary. They also understand, as I do and have written many times on BB, that the public sector doesn’t suffer from bad economies as does the private sector and that the public sector is not just overweight but is obese and needs to be put on the fat man’s training table (as they used to call it during the Lombardi era). I know, and have told Alderman Bob Donovan and others, about the Milwaukee Police Department and where there is significant fat in the upper echelon which could be trimmed without any disruption in services or efficiency at all. I speak out about those things whenever the opportunity presents itself and I will continue to do so. Maybe if you and some of your comrades did likewise you’d help to reduce the generalizations and bitterness (again which I understand especially when people in the private sector are being laid off but people in the public sector continue to flourish with new political administrations and the patronage that always seems to accompany them after an election).
And finally, I would suggest to you that when somebody accommodates a request you make for consideration that you at least send them an e-mail and thank them.
March 1st, 2009 at 7:45 pm
Zach typed: “These jobs are no less important simply because they don’t produce goods.”
Zach, by that statement you show your complete and utter disconnect with what our founding fathers intended and with the realities of the true AMERICAN DREAM.
Zach, private sector jobs are indeed THE MOST IMPORTANT jobs.
They are far more important than public sector jobs.
Zach, do you not understand that without the tax revenues that fund your private sector employment that you would not have a job???
I am not saying your job (whatever it is) is not important or that you are not important.
I am stating that the fruits of our society begin and end with the benefits created by the labors of the PRIVATE SECTOR.
Without the private sector you do not exist.
Not the other way around.
No offense Zach, but public sector employment in the grand scheme of things is indeed “not as important”.
Brian
March 2nd, 2009 at 8:19 am
I am a retired clerical employee of the City of Milwaukee. Everytime the economy is in recession it must be time to ‘beat up on’ public employees. And when the economy is booming you run into people who basically are calling you ‘schmucks’ for being in the public sector. This is the deal folks….many people in the gov’t sector took their jobs for the security and the benefits….and many in the private sector(esp. the young kids) want the ‘instant gratification’. Neither choice is ‘wrong’. Grow up and appreciate we all need each other!
March 2nd, 2009 at 9:44 am
I’m SHOCKED. I tell you I’m SHOCKED, Folktunes, Crapper and Zackie are all sucking at the public teat. Who would’ve thunk it. I’m sure they all bust their hinders for the taxpayer. 24/7.
March 2nd, 2009 at 10:37 am
I’m sorry Diane, I would have responded sooner, but I was laughing hysterically at the retired government worker giving those you were supposed to serve a lecture. Your attitude IS THE PROBLEM.
You should thank God that you have a retirement. Nobody but me pays for mine. Nobody but me pays for my families health and dental. You need to grow up yourself Diane, you seem to be living in a make believe world,
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:51 am
Diane said:
“Grow up and appreciate we all need each other!”
See - that’s the thing Diane. With the exception of critical departments like Fire and Police for public safety, Transportation for Infrastructure, and such. We don’t “need” you.
I work at a global mega-corp. We don’t have “clerical workers”. We do our own typing and filing and sending UPS and ordering office supplies and the like. Your job was completely unneccessary. But now those of us watching our 401k’s disappear and paying higher co-pays and insurance premiums and are lucky enough to keep our jobs with no raises or pay cuts get to pay for you - your pension and your healthcare - for the rest of your life.
We are cutting 10% of our budget this year - through a variety of methods: putting off purchases, extending payment terms, cutting head count with attrition, negotiating pricing - you name it.
The government not only doesn’t cut anything, they ask the private sector to pony up more money so they can continue their own insulated world of “more”.
March 2nd, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Diane, I will give credit where credit is due; at least you recognize that the security your Govt. job provided is a very important benefit.
The fallacy is that government workers are underpaid vs. their private sector counterparts. Studies come out yearly showing the shrinking gap between the compensation levels of private workers vs public workers.
Look at the compensation rolls for the state of WI and UW System.
Dozens upon dozens of bureaucrats and administrators making in excess of $100,000.00 a year.
People that, if they vanished tomorrow, no one would notice.
Do you know what it takes to make a $100,000.00 a year in the private sector?
The performance levels and accountability you have on a yearly basis to make that kind of $$$??
For state of WI workers its who you know and when you know.
Perfect example is the State of WI Transportation Department IT professional who made $125K a year working for the state and his IT program didn’t work so he gets fired and rightfully so.
What happens a year later?
The State of WI hires him to another $100K position in a different area of Govt.
Last time I checked, if you get fired by a Private Corporation for performance failures you are not eligible for rehire.
For the life of me, I cannot think of any reason ANY PUBLIC EMPLOYEE should make over $100K a year when they dont face the biggest challenge in business: COMPETITION.
We are not hammering public employees, we are simply stating the fact that public employees always have their hands out for MORE MORE MORE yet when times are tough its all about KEEPING MINE and not sharing at all in the burdens that we face.